There are two strategies on Ukraine coexisting in Berlin, and that's a problem, — Anton Hofreiter, member of the Bundestag

The one strategy is to hope that Russia and Ukraine will eventually negotiate.

Anton Hofreiter is a member of the Bundestag (Alliance 90/The Greens) and the head of the Committee on European Union Affairs. In September, he visited Ukraine and personally witnessed the damage to the children's hospital "Okhmatdyt," caused by Russian shelling. During the visit, he once again emphasized that precisely Ukraine's military strength can stop Putin.

At the sidelines of the Warsaw Security Forum (WSF-2024), "Telegraf" spoke with the German politician about Berlin's current approach to supporting Ukraine.

— Mr. Hofreiter, after a recent visit to Ukraine, you wrote on your Facebook page that "Germany must finally live up to its responsibility and its economic strength" in supporting Ukraine. So how could Germany fully demonstrate its strength?

— The first thing Germany should do is to realize and recognize, and not only some people but the whole government and political elite, that the Russian attack is not only against Ukraine but the whole of Europe and our democracy. They are attacking Ukraine in an open war, but also attacking the rest of Europe through propaganda, cyberattacks, and sabotage.

Then the second step is to draw enough conclusions of this issue. And one of the first and foremost issues is to deliver enough military goods to Ukraine. Of course, the first aim of the Ukrainian soldiers is to defend their country and their families, but they also defend the whole of Europe. We should give them all they need so that they can not only defend but push back the Russian army out of Ukraine.

Because I am convinced that with a regime like Putin’s, you can only come to peace when you show him strength and push him back. As long as Putin believes that in the long, long run he will win this war, he’ll never accept real peace.

— Germany has the capabilities for all the steps you listed, right? I mean, often experts criticize Washington for the lack of strategy for the win of Ukraine in this war. But does Berlin have such a strategy? What is the ultimate goal of supporting Kyiv right now?

— The problem is that there are several strategies in Berlin. There is one strategy to give Ukraine weapons as long as needed and to hope that Russia and Ukraine will talk to each other, and we will end up with peace. I don't believe in this strategy because as long as we don't say that Ukraine has to win this war, Russia will always believe that in the long term, it will win. I think this strategy is wrong because it does not understand what Russia really wants.

The second strategy is to give Ukraine as many weapons, and as much military support, as it needs to win the war.

And these two strategies co-exist. They co-exist in the government, they co-exist in most parties. But they don't co-exist within The Greens. Nearly all of us are committed to the "Ukraine must win" strategy.

You could also say Germany has no strategy, but it's not true. We have two co-existing and always one strategy wants to be stronger. So that's the problem in Berlin.

— And what should be done for Germany to choose one strategy?

— I think if we would choose one strategy, and it's the wrong one, that would be even worse than the situation now. And what could be done? We who are on the side of the strategy "Ukraine must win" are doing our best, and we have to do even more to explain to people that that's the only way to peace.

Because people really want peace. And too many people think that we will get to peace by just talking to Putin, and do not understand that these talks must be backed with strength.

Especially in the eastern part of Germany, the approach of just talking [with Russia] without military strength and power backing it is very popular. But eastern Germany is a much smaller part of the country.

So we have huge challenges. But we have allies in many parties. We have allies within the conservatives, as well as the social democrats. The Minister of Defence (Boris Pistorius — ed.) is a very good ally when it comes to the strategy.

— At the same time, on the eve of the U.S. elections, concerns about the future of European security are growing. If Washington for some reason decides to reduce its share in supporting Ukraine, would Germany be able to take a leadership position in assistance to Kyiv?

— Germany would be able to do that. We are the third-largest economic power in the world. The second-largest economic power when it comes to democratic countries because China can hardly be called a democratic country.

So we would be able. It depends if we have the political will really to do it. And to have this will, we have to understand that it's also beneficial for Germany and the German people. And in a perfect world, it would be enough to say that this will help to save people in Ukraine. But in the real world, we have also to explain to people that it helps themselves.

But even if Donald Trump, which I really hope, does not win the election, Europe has to do more for its peace and security. Because it could not be always the way, when the peace in Europe is threatened, European politicians first ask, "What is Washington doing?" We have to be able to guarantee our peace for ourselves.

— The European economy is much bigger than Russian. So if there is a will…

— Yes, the European economy combined is much, much bigger than Russian. Only the German economy is much bigger than the Russian. We have to realize how powerful Europe can be when it's united and has the right strategy.

— As you mentioned earlier, there are some emerging calls for Ukraine to start a negotiation process with Russia. One Italian media reported that allegedly German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is also preparing some peace plan for Ukraine. Is this report trustworthy?

— I don't think it's in this way true. Chancellor always hopes that he can talk to Putin, but he in a way slowly also realizes that Putin not really wants peace.

Before any talks with Putin, we have to do enough and show him that Ukraine and Europe are powerful. Because I'm totally convinced when we want peace, we should not provoke Putin by showing weakness. And Europe unfortunately too often shows it.